Can NLP Really Change Our Lives?

 TOPICS IN THIS EPISODE

• What is NLP and what is it used for? 
• How can NLP help us reshape our thinking?

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Transcript

Ela: Hi Robbie. How are you today? Welcome to my show. 

Robbie: Hi Ela. Nice to see you. Thank you very much for inviting me. 

Ela: No problem. It's my pleasure. So Robbie, today we will talk about NLP which stands for neurolinguistic programming. But let's start off with you perhaps telling us a few words about who you are and what is it that you do.

Robbie: Sure. So who I am is a question that I've been grappling with for many years, but what I do is I started off as a businessman, and entrepreneur, started my own business in the 1980s, and then what I do now is I'm sort of have a small. Business as a sort of retired businessman, as sort of an investor. But most of my time is spent teaching NLP, coaching people, and also writing various books and stuff like that.

So yeah, that's, I call myself that sort of a teacher and a writer. 

Ela: Wonderful. And what inspired you to kind of put your career in business on hold, so to speak, and become an NLP trainer? How did you end up working in this industry? 

Robbie: It's a great question. I mean, I think, I dunno if I really put my business on hold in some sense.

One of my, first coaches said that if you want to become a leader, you need to find other leaders. So you need to create a space for them. So by doing something else, rather than trying to run my own business, I created a space because I vacated it and I had to find people to fill it. And although it was not the easiest thing to do, I had to kiss a few frogs before I found my prints as it were.

Ultimately, I landed up having, you know, very competent people running the business, and the business grew much faster than if I would've run it on my husband. So the business actually didn't, I think it did. As I was doing my parallel career as an NLP trainer. 

Ela: Wonderful. What can you tell us what NLP is?

So many people I think are might have heard the term before but perhaps are not quite sure because they don't even know what NLP stands for. Can, can you give us a brief definition of that? 

Robbie: Well, I mean, I think firstly, as you said, it stands for neurolinguistic programming, which sounds a bit of a mouthful.

And relates back to its early origins in the 1970s when a linguist language what is the language that people use that makes them feel good or makes them feel bad basically, or inspires them to perform better or worse. So that's, its, and, and how does that affect the brain? So, you know, neurolinguistic programming in that.

But basically, I would say a simpler term is it's a toolkit from those early origins in the 1970s it developed into an international movement where people created specific tools for specific problems or to help enhance performance in a specific context. So NLP is like literally a toolkit that's like dozens of different processes that you can do, depending on whatever the issue or thing you want to achieve is.

And we'll talk more about that later, but that's how I would define it as a tool. 

Ela: A toolkit that we use in relation to we, we could use it in relation to better performance, in relation to happier relationships, building happier relationships, or creating better support networks or perhaps better work-life balance.

Right. Okay, great. So perhaps we can talk about briefly the type of situations where NLP could be especially useful. So could you think of like the most common problem that you have experienced in your career as a trainer that your clients come to you with? Whoever those clients are. 

Robbie: Sure. Well, I mean the one I find particularly useful in, you know, I mean there is, is, is to try and put it in a certain frame for Ella. Because I teach NLP at all sorts of different levels. Mm-hmm. is, it depends where somebody is in terms of their own you know, what they do and how much personal development they've done.

So if somebody has done very little personal development, NLP is a great way into it in terms of being able to become aware of other people. And more aware of yourself and be better at communication and being able to be more effective in the way you express yourself. But then it sort of starts moving up into more complex things around sort of beliefs and therapy, and then into methodologies of delivering training.

And, and more complex ways of doing it. So there's a whole, a whole sort of raft of it in terms of, you know, I mean, I just invite you to ask me some more questions if you like, around who am I answering this question for in a way. 

Ela: Right yeah, I get you. Okay. So let's start, let's say someone's let's say our listeners are complete beginners to that.

They're complete newbies. So what's the best way for them to picture a situation where NLP can help? 

Robbie: Great. So you used the word picture there, which is a sort of visual word. So picture a situation and NLP is, is famous for making popular this idea of visual, auditory, and kinesthetic learning styles.

That's a kind of something you often find is so often people use things which came from NLP and they didn't know that was the origin of it from NLP. So if you, if, if therefore if I can tell. If you have a visual preference and you've talked about relationships, for example, and I had an auditory preference, that might mean that I may not look at you because I'm more processing with words while maybe you are more processing with pictures.

So by understanding, you know, in a relationship context that you value. Pictures and seeing things, I might then think, Okay, well it may not be important to me because I'm more into words, but in order to please you and make the relationship work better, I better sort of become more aware of my appearance or look at you when I talk to you and understand those subtle differences.

So that's an example of becoming aware of your preferences and of someone else's, and then try and sort of match them in a way so that. You deliver something so often people's problems in relationships. I mean, this visual auditor and kinesthetic stuff came from a famous relationship therapist called Virginia Satir, and she often spent time in couples therapy.

And so often the problems that people have and the irritations they have with each other are they simply don't value their differences. Yeah. So if somebody's different to you and you want the relationship too. Well, you better work out what's important to you and what's important to them and try and encourage each other to kind of cross, to find for you got for me that we like so that we both feel important.

So I mean that that's kind of one example for newbies. Another one is that idea of perspective is some people are quite what we call NLP associated by the very in. Sometimes there's, there's an NLP trainer called Michael Grinder who's the brother of John Grinder and he talks about cats and dogs.

So some people are very kind of excited in it, very kind of, you know, emotional and connected, and other people are a bit more detached. So the idea is that the dog is more in it. And the cat is attached. So being again, self-aware, are you more of a cat or are you more of a dog? If you are more of a dog, maybe it's good for you to learn to become a bit more of a cat.

If you're a cat, maybe sometimes you need to learn to be a bit more of a dog. Mm-hmm. . So it's also that idea of some flexibility of how much emotional intensity you experience moment by moment, and being aware that you have some. That you're not forced to be a dog or a cat because you're human and you have some choice in the way you process things.

So if something is very unpleasant, it's probably best if you learn to be a cat. But if something is very pleasant, it's probably good that you become a dog. 

Ela: Yeah. Very well put. Just to give our listeners a bit of a context still to that. this is already. Helpful. But just to give you guys a little bit more understanding around this.

So let's imagine Robbie a situation. We have an argument between a man and a woman in a home setting. What let's not discuss the words of the argument and what's going on, but let's just say that it's becoming a heated discussion. What skills can NLP teach? To use a situation like this, to turn situations like this into a less heated discussion and more of a constructive argument in the future.

So what skills does it enable us to develop? 

Robbie: Okay. Well, I mean, I think skills come from attitudes. So there are some attitudes you need to, I think, develop in a heated argument. So if you are having a heated argument with yours. There is this idea that sometimes people say, I have to express myself because if I don't express myself, I'm not being true to myself.

So that's a belief. There's another belief that goes that if you don't ex if you express yourself harshly to your partner, You're not going to express yourself, communicate effectively, Yeah, you're going to upset them rather than whatever. So when you are in that angry, for want of a better word, dog mode like that, you become aware that even though it may feel good that you are expressing yourself, the result is going to be negative because your partner will perceive you as.

Yeah, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't express yourself. The secret then is so that's why, I mean, you start with the attitude. If you change your belief too, I must express myself too, I want to always express myself, but not harshly. I want to express myself firmly, but nicely. Yeah. I mean, there's a famous therapist outside of an NLP Boris from everywhere called Terry Real.

Terence Real, who's written a great book on couples therapy called, And that's what he said. If there's one tip I'll give you in a relationship don't be harsh when you express yourself. Mm-hmm. , that's great, So if you're having an argument, you've gotta say to yourself for a moment, have a little pause.

If I'm being harsh, I need to pause until I calm down and then I can express myself as a cat rather than as a dog. 

Ela: Mm-hmm. Okay. 

Robbie: So I dunno where the cat and dog thing is coming from. Exactly. But, but in other words, when you are having that argument and you feel you want to get even, you know, you've got that locked, torn feeling, you, you become aware of the feeling and say, Am I expressing myself effectively?

Am I being harsh? And if the answer is, Then you find an excuse like, I just need to go to the toilet and just sort of rush out of the room, break the pattern, and then promise yourself that within 24 hours, even if it's an email or a text or whatever, you will express what you felt, but not necessarily in that harsh or unkind way.

Ela: So you could Perfect. So we could say that it helps us build self-awareness. And better communication develop a better communication style in different life situations. That can be extremely useful. Does NLP help us with anything else? 

Robbie: Yes, I mean, so, so that you gave the example, why not pick another example?

You said a heated argument, and I hope you saw the point, is that alright? One of them is a technique where you become aware of your emotional state, make a judgment on it, and decide that you don't want to do it. But at the root of it is being curious about your own beliefs. So often people say, I won't be bullied.

I won't be pushed around. I'm not gonna let anyone be unpleasant to me. Yeah. And then you become curious, but how does that belief sit with its best in a loving relationship? Not to express yourself harshly, although you need to express yourself. So there is this thing about changing your rules. And once you have new rules, then when you are really upset, you still have a rule you can get to or a belief.

And I think that's, that's for me, the kind of how you manage yourself is these two things. One of them is a sort of technique. And the other you know, like breathing techniques or stuff like that, but also being really curious about the values and beliefs you hold. Because if you are angry and then your belief says you are right to be angry, go for it.

Then, you are not at that moment gonna be able to calm down at. You need both techniques to calm down as well as be curious about the beliefs you have. 

Ela: But I feel like it all starts with self-awareness, doesn't it? It starts with having an open mind to explore because so many of us are unhappy, feeling unfulfilled, feeling exhausted, whatever you name it.

But so many of us are so stuck in our ways of thinking that we feel often feel like whatever we try doesn't. But I am, I think it's fair to say that more often than not, people don't realize that they need to start by changing themselves and being curious about it. What do they believe in? Why do they do what they do?

Why do they react in the way they react? So it's, I just think it's such a, for you and me, it might be a very self-explanatory thing to say, but I think for many people it might not be that obvious that we always start with changing ourselves. If we want to change any aspect of our lives, the way we will be able to do that is if we develop this curiosity and open mind and self-awareness to explore what you just discussed, like beliefs and so on. 

Robbie: Well, I mean, right, the first, the first, then the first step in this process is to say you have two choices. You can either blame someone else and feel bad or the second. Is, you can still blame someone else, but you say, What choice do I have? And the choice you have is you can change your behaviour. And there is a saying in NLP is it's easier to change yourself than change someone else.

Yeah. So when you change your behaviour, it tends to have an influence on someone else's behaviour. If you tell somebody else to change their behaviour, it rarely works. Even if we turned to do. But I mean, in all that, You kind of made this, this overall point is when I feel upset, I do feel like a victim. I feel it's unfair and you know all that, but I also am aware that that's not all of me.

There's like an upset, almost younger part of me. Which kind of springs up and sort of almost wants to take control of my,, my thinking, my take control of myself. But I think there's also, that's I, I was saying about the cat and dog or that different perspectives are I'm also aware that there's a part of me that is and the part that isn't, that there's a part of me that has more choice and doesn't feel like a victim, and it's when that part becomes very, very triggered or dominant. How do I manage that? And rather than go into a negative self-talk that I'm no good and I can't do it and I'm a victim, is to say that's how I feel right now.

But I also know that I'm not gonna feel like that. Yeah, I probably feel better in an hour. So what do I need to do over the next hour to manage that? And often it's to distract yourself or try and do something different. So NLP is often about this idea of becoming aware of your emotional state, but also understanding that emotional state changes.

You know, like a dog will bark but it's not barking all the time. A dog also will be happy. And we, our emotions, you know, fluctuate. And when we decide that we are. At our lowest emotional state. Once we identify, say I'm a sad person, or a depressed person, or a victim type person, then that's kind of in a sense, not allowing yourself to say, I am a whole range of different feelings, but right now I might not feel so good.

Ela: Mm. I feel a hundred per cent agree with you. Could not agree more. From my own experience, I found. When I started practising NLP, I wasn't aware it was Nlp. But when I've identified in a situation of stress or anxiety I learned to control my emotions. And still, express them, but perhaps remembering that there is the other part of me, the logical analytical thinking part of me that is aware of my long-term goals and my values in life.

And that part of me started to kind of slowly the older I got and the more experience I got and the better I got at this, reminding the emotional part of me that everything's in order. This is this, this too shall pass, as they say. So it is just a situation. It's natural to feel angry, and I've learned to get myself out of that, take, take a walk or distancing myself from the situation or a person that was making me feel that way.

And it wasn't productive, it wasn't getting better, and that logical part of me kicked in that almost coached the whole of me back into peace. And, I've noticed this happening more regularly now, and when I practice self-awareness and I practice being in touch with myself, with my emotions, with my, but also with my vision, with my goals, I feel.

Do you agree that this makes, This the beginning of what I call self-master? Perhaps that is a bit of a bold definition. Perhaps self masteries stands for more things than just that, but I think in our, in the life of a common person, I think that the meeting of the two personas, you could say those two parts of us.

And when, when we are able to coach ourselves back and talk ourselves back into balance and peace and go back to our daily tasks, and daily routine. Is the beginning, often of the change. Would you agree with that?

Robbie: I think, yeah. I like the idea of, that self-mastery or the beginning of being able to do that, and I like the idea that there's something available for everyone.

It's not something that you have to be some kind of a perfectionist. I'm not exactly sure if you can control your emotions. I mean, for me, the tip on self-mastery is it's not so much that you can control your emotions, but you do have a choice about whether you act upon them at the moment. 

Ela: That, that's what I meant. Yeah. 

Robbie: And, and I think, so for me, so often it's a matter of sort. If you try and push emotions away, that increases stress. If you try and magnify them, that also increases stress. But if you can somehow hold them within you and just say, I'm angry right now. 

Ela: Acknowledge them. Right?

Robbie: Exactly, and then by holding those emotions, but I don't have to say whatever it is.

Yeah. Now, and the other thing is not to beat yourself up when it goes wrong. Because I think every now and again, you get tired and you just say the wrong. And then afterwards you could say, Oh, I'm not perfect. No, you, you'll still mess up sometimes. But I suppose to me, mastery is moving from messing up most of the time to messing up much less of the time so that you sort of think, Oh, back then I didn't, you know, react, I managed, although I felt angry, I managed to do something else and I calmed down, and then I had more influence over the situation.

I remember hearing once that the term loses, your temper has the word lose in it. Mm-hmm. , and I kind of quite like that. It's reminding yourself that actually when you lose it, there is a sense of that you, you know, that you've lost something and perhaps somebody else has won something. Not that you are particularly wanting to compete, but it's a useful thing is, is just to get that frame of reference, that expressing yourself in anger.

I mean, apart from being in a dangerous situation that is generally unhelpful, it's also quite normal. Most people wait until they're angry to express themselves. The discipline is to be able to wait until you calm down. But then also a great quote for you. Character is the ability to carry out a worthy decision after the emotion of making that decision has passed.

Ela: Love it. 

Robbie: That's from Pyron Smith. Yeah. So, there is the idea of developing your own character, your own, that part of you of saying, Actually I want to be, grow into someone I would admire. Now it's always a growth process. One of the other things I did want to say is that one of the problems with self-help is often it's seen as a medical thing.

Like if you have, if you're depressed, that the outcome is you'll be happy permanently or something like that. Yeah. Which is unrealistic. I think it's understanding that these types of thoughts and these sorts of learning help you manage yourself, but it's never perfect and it's an ongoing process.

You're not gonna fix it. That's, and, and I think once you get out of the idea that it's not an outcome, it's, I'm not gonna suddenly turn into Bud or some kind of, you know, a religious figure that is never upset. But it's just a process that with a little bit of effort, I can make things a little bit better.

And so often things can transform in your relationships. When you do this when you change from saying fear to love and expression. You know yourself lovingly, even though it's not always, you don't always necessarily get it back. Sometimes that can be the magic that makes all the difference.

Ela: Totally agree. I found gratitude is very, very helpful on daily basis and practising gratitude even when I'm going through a tough time, just finding a bit of sparkle in my day. It's, it's like reminding myself, but hey, there are good things in your life. Look at this. Look at this. There are, but nobody's got it perfect all the time. And I like what you said that there we don't, we can't suddenly turn into Buddha. I think it's just important to point out that nobody in this world is happy a hundred percent of the time.

So don't let anybody make you believe that if you do therapy for long enough or if you read enough books or if you practice enough meditation, you will be happy a hundred percent of the time. You won't be. But what you will be able to do is better control the days and the moments when you're feeling low and you will be able to pick yourself.

From, that place into a place, of action and that desired behaviour and, therefore keep going on with reaching your goals. And so, I love this conversation. It's so cool. Last question for you, Robbie. Like we said at the beginning, anybody can practice NLP and in different life situations. Can you talk us through perhaps the first three steps of how anybody can practice NLP to make use of it, and get those benefits in our lives?

Robbie: Sure. Well, I mean, I suppose there is sort of two situations. One, when you are under stress and one when you are not. And I think we've mainly talked in this podcast about when you are under stress, what strategies can you do, You know, when you are kind of in a kind of difficult state. So it might be good to sort of switch into what happens where you want to actually prepare yourself.

So one of the techniques from NLP is something called anchoring, which is very popular. And maybe I'll just end by telling you a story about a student who came, to one of my training. So he did this anchoring thing by, at the end of each day when he was in bed at night, just before he went to sleep.

He would try and remember, One, two, or even, usually said three things that happened to him in the day, which were nice. They didn't have to be very significant. Maybe someone smiled at him in Starbucks or you know, or he had a little laugh about something or whatever it was, and each time you do it, he pinched his fingers together and he just did this every night try and be grateful, as you say, for something pleasant that happened in the day. And he changed that every day. He did that for about a year, and after a year he shifted, and he became a happier person. In fact, his wife was so impressed with this that she said, I dunno what you did to my husband.

But she showed up for the training. She said it because something shifted. And he simply said, by practising focusing on something positive gave him a shift in the way that he felt. But that same technique can be used if you are about to go into a stressful situation, but you are not there yet. You have a few moments, remembering some, past stories, and having a way of connecting like the dog into those strong feelings, positive feelings.

A mix diff a few different, not all the same feelings, three or four feelings. That would mean that when you go into it, you can then perform at your best. And these are the tricks that are used by athletes and you know, kind of elite kind of business people and, and actors and so on that NLP so often teaches people how to do that sort of thing. 

Ela: Mm. So imagine yourself in a situation in the past when you did something well, when you succeeded when you were happy, and remind yourself what feelings you felt at the time when it happened. And trying to embrace those feelings in, this given moment now, and that gives us that confidence boost.

Robbie: Yeah, and I'd say sort of the three to kind of focus on is one for you feeling sort of strong and grounded. One for someone else being kind and empathetic, and one to give you a little bit of space, a little detachment, a little bit of humour, just to sort of, you know, have a little bit of range in those three memories so that you can have all these sorts of different kind of qualities.

And that's really a tip I'd give. 

Ela: Wonderful. Well, I enjoyed this conversation very much. Thank you for your time today, Robbie. If any of the lists, our listeners or viewers want to find you, where is the best place, to look for you? To find you? 

Robbie: NLP school.com. 

Ela: Perfect. Okay. I'll make sure to include the link to that in the show notes.

And I'll see you all next week for the next podcast episode. Thank you very much. 

Robbie: Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone. Bye.